New forum ideas

sonnenhund wrote:The problem with running our own server/BBS is not the initial setup and configuration, it's the ongoing maintenance, updating, upgrading, and management. That can be a time sink which is thankless and boring. Ultimately SaaS costs more money but gives you time, reliability, and peace of mind.

I have a hunch that's precisely the reason EF is closing: costs in cash, not in volunteer hours.

It's running on forum software released on 2009. In spite of being paid software, access to support, and everything ready to be transferred to the vBulletin cloud (SaaS), we're here.

Phil_MCR wrote:
I registered a domain name and set up a forum here: swissforum co uk

I'd be glad if people could join, test it and give feedback.

I'm still waiting to hear back from The Local to see if they will agree to access to the database so that the forum can be pre-populated with old threads.

If not, I saved all my own threads/posts and if we have enough people willing to allow their old posts to be transferred over, we might be able to save a proportion of the old content.

For continuity, it would be great if the prior EF moderators would be willing to continue serve as moderators in the forum.

Thanks Phil_MCR! . I have not registered but will do soon.

I see that the categories are there.



I'm reading into the specs of the service to check for the functionalities:

1) Quote posts as others mentioned
2) Attach pics in post
3) Enclose video in post
4) Thanks button
5) like/dislike buttons and reputation system
6) export threads to other forum software so we have a locked archive and don't reach the storage limit of 10 GB.

Mods, any other indispensable function?

From the cost side, I guess we would need to do an annual fundraiser for 600 USD, right? I bring the beer

Wait a min...members are limited to 100. More members is part of the 1'200 USD plan

Last night I was playing with phpBB on a local install on my computer. Sorry, it's too dangerous let people access my laptop from the internet, so no test for now

The structure of current EF can be replicated. Some features like the thanks button and reputation system are provided as plug-ins. It may take some effort to make these plug-ins work.



PROS:

1) Faimiliarity with the curernt EF. It looks like current forum. Colors, text, logos, all customizable.
2) Thanks button and reputation system can be installed, takes time.
3) Enclose video is also available as plug-in takes time
4) Keeping it running costs time of people with backend knowledge and experience, not cash.
5) it's not free, we have find a suitable hosting, 50-200 USD per year depending on user demand.
6) We have the flexibility to grow in users without paying more.
7) Easier to export to other forum software in case of need in the future.

CONS (when compared to Discourse)

1) Keeping it running costs time of people with backend knowledge and experience, not cash.
2) Someone(s) should take the responsibility of backups, restores and all that.
3) Website security. I know close to nothing, I've always worked behind firewalls setup by IT. Doable, but it should also take some regular work.
4) Low workload on the forum backend side.

So, what do you think? As summary:

- phpBB: lower cost, more flexibility, more volunteer work
- Discourse: higher cost, less flexible, less volunteer work.

Axa wrote:
So, what do you think? As summary:

- phpBB: lower cost, more flexibility, more volunteer work
- Discourse: higher cost, less flexible, less volunteer work.

Maybe stupid question - why not stay here?

jaceq wrote:Maybe stupid question - why not stay here?

Damned good question, let me read the specs of this website. So:

1) organize threads by topics in home page: ?
2) limits of number of users: ?
3) bandwidth limits: ?
4) storage limits: ?
5) possibilities of customization: ?
6) alternatives to move if forummotion collapses one day: ?

So far, uploading pictures is easy. Thanks button is already there. Youtube works.

Axa wrote:

jaceq wrote:Maybe stupid question - why not stay here?

Damned good question, let me read the specs of this website. So:

1) limits of number of users: ?
2) bandwidth limits: ?
3) storage limits: ?
4) possibilities of customization: ?
5) alternatives to move if forummotion collapses one day: ?

So far, uploading pictures is easy. Thanks button is already there. Youtube works.

They say there is no limit of users / storage: <I cannot paste a link but there is a 'help' forum on main page of forumotion (in footer) and you can search there for limits>

Axa wrote:
I'm reading into the specs of the service to check for the functionalities:

1) Quote posts as others mentioned
2) Attach pics in post
3) Enclose video in post
4) Thanks button
5) like/dislike buttons and reputation system
6) export threads to other forum software so we have a locked archive and don't reach the storage limit of 10 GB.

Mods, any other indispensable function?

For what it's worth, I don't think a reputation system or a like/dislike system are required. Discourse's and this forum's "Thank" are plenty IMO.

jaceq wrote:

Axa wrote:
So, what do you think? As summary:

- phpBB: lower cost, more flexibility, more volunteer work
- Discourse: higher cost, less flexible, less volunteer work.

Maybe stupid question - why not stay here?

This is "free", which means that we are very likely the product. TANSTAAFL.

the quote feature for that forum is really great, you just highlight the bit you want to quote and press the quote button!

I don't have a horse in the race in terms of what platform, but someone has to be seriously considering the back-side things and not just what users see on the boards. Seems like Phil is looking into that with his potential site?

Axa wrote:...Mods, any other indispensable function?

Ease of moving posts and threads to the correct sections, and a moderator tool panel that's easy to navigate?

3Wishes wrote:I don't have a horse in the race in terms of what platform, but someone has to be seriously considering the back-side things and not just what users see on the boards. Seems like Phil is looking into that with his potential site?

I'm reading a bit on this forummotion thingy and it's not that bad.

The software behind is phpBB3.x which makes the database quite compatible with other forum software.

My current worry is if the this free website one disappears without warning. So, how to do backups, and are we allowed to do them?

Apart from that, there must be a way to organize the threads in main forum page.

Axa wrote:

3Wishes wrote:I don't have a horse in the race in terms of what platform, but someone has to be seriously considering the back-side things and not just what users see on the boards. Seems like Phil is looking into that with his potential site?

I'm reading a bit on this forummotion thingy and it's not that bad.

The software behind is phpBB3.x which makes the database quite compatible with other forum software.

My current worry is if the this free website one disappears without warning. So, how to do backups, and are we allowed to do them?

Apart from that, there must be a way to organize the threads in main forum page.

There's probably some sort of backup allowed. I'll have a poke around. It might be something only the founding user can mess with.

There is a way to organize threads and sections, and I'd started on it. But now that Phil has his site, I'm reluctant to spend a ton of time trying to duplicate the EF structure if this site will also disappear.

I don't mind the look of either site, although the Discord layout one looks more familiar than this one.

More and more I begin to think that migrating the entire EF doesn't make sense. If it's possible to do piecemeal, such as useful sticky threads or entire users who want to be migrated, that could be good. It would save space not to move everything, and it would mean combing out some of the less useful stuff to start somewhat fresh.

I think I found 2 reasons to not use forumotion:

1) The forum is (legally) forever trapped here.

Forumotion only allows importing external forums. Exporting is not a possible feature. Please see "Data and Security" of the terms you agreed to while creating your forum. Unfortunately you will either have to start from scratch or copy content over manually that you want.

2) No independent backup of the forum. In case anything happens to the forumotion (either financially, hardware or software) bye bye to forum. From forumotion terms of use:

Service security – forumotion.com shall take the necessary measures to ensure the security of the contents, in particular with regular backup of all the contents. These backups are accessible to the Forum Administrator, who can restore his forum to the state in which it was at an earlier date, within the time limit of conservation of these backups. Apart from the provisions relating to data portability (see below), no backup or dump of a forum or of all or part of the data it contains may be provided, including for forums that have imported their database on the forumotion.com service.

It seems their business model is:

1) Forums eventually grow in users, storage and bandwidth use.
2) The forum will hit a limit of the free services, and then you have to pay to keep the forum running.
3) Don't want to pay? You're not allowed to export your forum.  If you leave, you lose your forum.

So, Jaceq...I think your question has an answer.

I will read now the terms of use of Discord.

Thanks for trawling through those terms, Axa. VERY relevant and helpful information to know now instead of later!

3Wishes wrote:Thanks for trawling through those terms, Axa. VERY relevant and helpful information to know now instead of later!

Ha, I mixed up. The one created by Phil_MCR is a forum in Discourse.

The Discourse terms of use are written in legalese, bit harder to understand but two points arise:

1) There's also no function to export our forum. It's forever trapped in Discourse environment. Not because of terms but because Discord is a native Javascript application. Discourse allows backups, but said backups cannot be imported anywhere but Discourse.

2) Community guidelines. If you read them, you'd start to worry that any of our threads could trigger the company to nuke our forum. But, those are the rules. What's the experience of Discourse users/admins? How strongly enforced are community guidelines?

One day I realized I'm capable of respecting a contract, that my main worry should be instead assessing the ability of the other side to respect the deal. These internet companies come and go. So, Discourse is a forum with a backend that makes it incompatible with anything else. It all depends if the company behind Discourse survives or flops.

Overall, if we want self-hosted forum then we will incur following cost:
- VM / hosting cost
- domain
- time / cost of someone doing maintenance upgrades etc.

Obviously we could try to add some ads on it to cover the above or setup like patreon with like $1 / month, where people could chip in (on a volunteer basis)

Here are some ideas for free forum software and their different attributes:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software

For Hosting digital ocean is good and reliable

I have to post the url like that because new members are not allowed to post external links for 7 days.

You have to put the https bit at the front of the link above

baboon wrote:

Island Monkey wrote:Is there a way to make sub-forums on here, like before?? You know, daily life,  permits, education etc.

This - you need a structure pretty quickly or the forum will rapidly become an unreadable mess and the appointed muggins - sorry, mods - will have a real job on trying to sort it all out.

I hope the mods/admins didn't have any plans for the weekend...

While I totally agree with you about structure, I'm reluctant to spend my weekend making everything here look pretty, only to find out we end up somewhere else. So I did some basics and have been approving new members.

"The Discourse terms of use are written in legalese, bit harder to understand but two points arise"

Can you please post a link to the document you reviewed. I'm not sure what you looking at and multiple times you seem to get mixed up between Discord and Discourse which are two very different things.

3Wishes wrote:

baboon wrote:

Island Monkey wrote:Is there a way to make sub-forums on here, like before?? You know, daily life,  permits, education etc.

This - you need a structure pretty quickly or the forum will rapidly become an unreadable mess and the appointed muggins - sorry, mods - will have a real job on trying to sort it all out.

I hope the mods/admins didn't have any plans for the weekend...

While I totally agree with you about structure, I'm reluctant to spend my weekend making everything here look pretty, only to find out we end up somewhere else. So I did some basics and have been approving new members.

I was just thinking earlier that you and the other admins here should try to have a relaxing weekend after all the time you've spent on this place the past few days. I wish I could have helped more.